Kim
Kim. Hello everyone. I’m Kim Thiboldeaux, and I’m delighted to welcome you to this episode of NEBGH Voices. We’re pleased today to welcome Shawnie Hawkins. Shawnie serves as Senior Director of the Human Rights Campaign Foundation’s Workplace Equality Program, where she leads efforts to help employers create more inclusive, equitable environments for LGBTQ+ employees. Shawnie brings a unique perspective shaped by her experience in both corporate HR and advocacy, combining business insight with a passion for advancing workplace equality. Shawnie, we’re so glad to have you with us today. Thanks for joining.
Shawnie
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Kim
Well, let’s, let’s dive right in before we get to the issues around workplace equality. I’d love to learn a little bit more about you. I’d love for our listeners to learn a little bit more about HRC. So if you can tell us about HRC, Human Rights Campaign, and its mission, and what led you to HRC and this work?
Shawnie
Sure, so the Human Rights Campaign and Human Rights Campaign Foundation, you know, it was really formed in 1980 as a need for LGBTQ+ folks to have, you know, some community and advocacy as a lot of what was the community was seeing in the country, we didn’t have a lot of public policy support for. So the Human Rights Campaign is really here to fight to make, you know, equality and equity and liberation a reality for all LGBTQ+ people. We’re the nation’s largest civil rights organization, and I think that’s what brought me there. Personally, I, you know, I identify as a black, queer, cisgender woman, and through my professional career, I wasn’t able to have all of those identities exist at the same time, and felt that I could be professionally successful or even safe until I got connected to HRC. So I was a volunteer leader at a steering committee in Charlotte, North Carolina for a couple of years, and then an opportunity presented itself for me to relocate to DC and become a staff member here. So I learned my advocacy through HRC, both personally and professionally.
Kim
And that’s great. I love that story. I love that that journey.
Shawnie
Thank you!
Kim
Shawnie, you’ve had experience in both corporate HR and now in advocacy. How have those experiences shaped the way you think about LGBT+ inclusion?
Shawnie
Yeah, I think, you know, I have a really unique perspective, Kim, on that, you know. I don’t just operate in the theoretical sense of what workplace inclusion looks like, which, you know, a lot of practitioners have kind of been in those spaces, like I have been on the receiving end of that. You know, I am not only a SHRM-certified HR practitioner, I have been the employee that those policies have impacted. I have been an ERG member and an ERG leader that wanted to infect change inside of their workplaces. So I think, you know, the personal advocacy that I had for myself, like I mentioned, you know, not being able to hold all my identities at once, and using the positions that I had inside my workplaces to try to affect my own change, led me to HRC, and being able to do this on a bigger platform.
Kim
That’s great. I love that sort of broad based experience, and how you’ve taken that and sort of interwoven it into your sort of current, current role. I think our I think some of our listeners may not know about the HRC Foundation’s workplace equality program. So can you describe that program? Shawnie, for our listeners, and what, what kinds of support and resources do you offer to employers through that program?
Shawnie
Yeah, so the Workplace Equality Program is housed on the foundation arm of HRC. I think a lot of folks, when they hear about HRC or their see our logo, they know about our, you know, political and public policy advocacy work, but we do have a foundation too that is, you know, very apolitical, and really creates resources that lean into our mission, which is really just creating equity and inclusion for all, including LGBTQ+ folks. So the Workplace Equality Program, we really focus on creating and developing greater workplace inclusion, and we do that through several things. We have the Corporate Equality Index, which is our flagship benchmarking tool that’s been out in the field for over 20 years. We also create resources for employers, practitioners. So if you’re looking for, you know, assistance on writing inclusive policies or best practices, we show up in that space. And then we also produce climate research. About every five years, we put a survey out into the field to really understand what it feels like to be. An LGBTQ+ worker, and how we can really, you know, draw correlation between intent and impact through that kind of survey. You know, a lot of employers have really good intentions and put a lot of good policies in place. But how does that actually affect the day to day life of the, you know, the community and the people, the workforce that you’re trying, you know, to meet needs on, and so we kind of put all that out there to really give a 360 approach to workplaces on, you know, the impact of creating an inclusive space, and then what, you know, the negative impact when you don’t.
Kim
I love that. I think, I think that phrase might resonate with some of our employers, intent versus, versus impact. I love that. I think that’s a great, I think it’s a great framing. You mentioned, Shawnie, the Corporate Equality Index. I know it’s a cornerstone of the work that you do with employers. But for listeners new to that, what is it? How does it work? And why does it matter?
Shawnie
Yeah, you know, the Corporate Equality Index, like I mentioned, has been one of the flagship tools that the Human Rights Campaign has really done to do a lot of this work in workplaces, you know, really born out of LGBTQ+ executives that were inside their workplaces and weren’t really feeling that they could be them full, their full selves. You know, they’re seeing, you know, the policies and benefits that are given to folks aren’t really reaching everybody. So they sort of collectively amongst themselves wanted to sort of create a blueprint to share with employers on, you know, the gaps that they were seeing, you know, through that intent versus impact, right? You know, a lot of us, especially here in the United States, get our healthcare through our workplace. And so when you’re thinking of you know that those basic hard benefits, like medical and dental, you know you have to think about barriers to access to that. So does every employee inside your workplace getting the full benefit of the medical benefit package that you have. And so we step in to just open up that sort of window a little bit more so that employers really know how to build robust packages, benefits, and policies that actually lean into their intent of making a workplace affirming for all. So we’ve been doing that. It is a national benchmarking tool that really just measures policy practices and benefits, specifically for LGBTQ+ employees, but not exclusively. We truly feel that when the most marginalized is centered around a policy, it benefits everyone. You know, I’m a short person. I’m only 5’1, and I think about curb cuts on the street were not made for me because I’m an able-bodied individual, but that helps me not trip when I’m walking the streets, the streets of DC. I think of watching my TV with closed captions, even though I’m a hearing person. And so there’s a lot of things that are out there that you know may have the original intent to serve a specific need, but that everyone can benefit from. And so we try to really think about that with the tool of the Corporate Equality Index.
Kim
Could you go a little deeper for us on the index? What are some of the criteria companies are assessed on? Do they get a score at the end of it, what is done with the score and, and maybe, are there over this sort of 20 years? Are there trends that you’ve that you’ve noticed? Are we making progress, or areas where there are a lot of challenges still remain?
Shawnie
Yeah, you know. So when we first put this survey out, you know, the first one that was published was in 2002, and think back in the data technology, it was a questionnaire in the back of a printed equality magazine that HRC produced. You could fax in your responses back to our headquarters.
Kim
Right back in the day.
Shawnie
Yup, back in the day. So you know, it was maybe like 10, 12, basic questions. You know, does the non discrimination policy at your place of work, cover sexual orientation, gender identity, for example, D o the inclusive benefits, like I mentioned, the standard medical benefits, even soft benefits, are we ensuring that there’s equal access to essential health care and family planning support that are available for all employees? You know, if you’ve got family formation benefits is a part of one of your benefits to attract and recruit talent. Then, is all talent inside of your workplace able to access that benefit? What does that look like when two cis-women are in a relationship and they want a family form? Are they going to have a history of infertility in order to qualify for some of the IVF and IVR services that are part of family formation benefits, probably not. And so HRC comes through with the CEI to put a spotlight on that and make sure that employers are aware that you know your best laid intention of that plan isn’t equally accessible. So how do we make sure that you’re bridging those gaps. You know, supporting an inclusive culture is another core pillar of the Corporate Equality Index. So when you’re looking at what really makes a workplace tick, what makes people feel safe in order to produce, you know, their day to day jobs, that’s everything from, you know, dress code policies, bathroom policies, you know, even pronouns. So like, how do you interact with one another? What is your harassment policies look like, and are LGBTQ+ identities included in those harassment policies? So those are the things that we really kind of focused on. And then our fourth, fourth pillar is about outreach and engagement. So once you know the internal four walls, how you’re showing up for your workforce, then you, as a business with a product or service, how are then, are you showing up in community? And are you showing up in community in a way that serves everyone you know, that could be a potential customer or a client, and that is inclusive of LGBTQ+ folks? This survey obviously has changed since being a faxed document in the back of a magazine till today. Thank thank goodness to technology and also through to just general advancement on work, workplace rights, you know, from the early 2000s into now, I think we’ve seen a very strong trend, not through just our benchmarking tool, but in society at large, being really understanding that in order for businesses to stay profitable and viable, they need to expand where they recruit talent. And you know, historical places of finding talent and recruiting talent, you’re missing a whole lot of diversity and untapped resources. And so I think what we saw, you know, from the very first DEI, we only had 319 active participating companies in it. Last year, 2025, when we released our report, we had over 1400, so we see the trend. We don’t advertise that this is open. This is by word of mouth. People want to be a part of this. They want to see where they show up as industry competitors. It’s essential for the LGBTQ+ workforce. This is their primary resource to understand what, where to go work, to make sure that you know as they are living into their you know their future and their vision of what they want for themselves and what success looks like for them. You know whether they’re coming out of formal education or however they start to enter the workforce. I think it’s imperative to understand what you’re getting into, especially in times like today, where it seems very uncertain on what rights are within a workplace or not an employer. Being a part of the Corporate Equality Index really shows to the LGBTQ+ community that this is a safe place to work, a safe place to spend my resources.
Kim
And Shawnie, do… if somebody’s like, let’s say, for example, a listener today wants to get started on this, wants to learn more. Wants to participate. How did they get started on it? Excuse me, and do folks, do do you get a score? Can folks improve their score? Is the score published? Talk a little bit more about the granularity of the process?
Shawnie
Yeah, absolutely to do that. So, yeah. So what? The Corporate Equality Index is an annual benchmarking tool, and so you are a first-time company joining the tool as of right now, our 2026 survey is open and in the field. So if you’re interested in it: One, you have to be a company that has US footprint and at least 500 US employees. So if you have those two things, then reach out to me, reach out to HRC at cei@hrc.org, and we’ll get you all set up to understand what the CEI looks like. You know, it’s a survey that’s around 100 or so questions long that really unpacks those four pillars that I talked about, and it does prescribe a score. So the scale is on 100 and basically you can get anywhere from zero to 100 on our scoring rubric based on how many of these essential policies or best practices that you have in place as an employer. So it’s essentially a self-assessment. So you are going to self assess internally all the things that you feel that you are doing, and then you’re going to submit that package to us. So when you submit that to us, there are certain parts of the criterion that you’ll have to provide evidence for, right? You know, we have a duty to our community to be as transparent as possible and honest. So yes, it’s a self assessment. So we don’t go in and assess you. You submit everything to us. Is what we mean by self assessment. But we are going to look at it and we are going to validate it. So, you know, you can’t send me a Chinese food menu and tell me that it’s an inclusive bathroom policy, right? We’re gonna make sure that the words and language within your policies are serving community and are in alignment with standard workplace best practices. And so we do that validation period, we give you a score, and then we release it at the beginning of the year. And so what the report is what it releases. It is, yes, a point in time, but the way that we conduct our survey, it is an actualization of current time. So when people are attesting to our survey, they are telling us that these policies and practices are currently in place, not were in place, or are going to be in place, and so when we release it at the beginning of the year, then you can pretty much bet that everyone that’s listed on there, those policies are going to be intact until the next cycle comes around.
Kim
Um. If I could just say Shawnie, it sounds a little scary. Maybe companies are really putting themselves out there, right? I’m sure there’s some hesitation, maybe for some folks to participate, although you have, you know, 1400 companies participating. So how do you guide leaders? How do you let them know that this is part of good leadership and part of a healthy workplace culture? Don’t be afraid. Come on in. Join us.
Shawnie
Yeah, you know, I think it’s right now is, you know, to be super honest, this is the most challenging time for the do gooders, for the ones that are really focused on, you know, the human aspect of the workforce and in producing and productivity within our society, because we have, you know, an administration that seems to be focused on, you know, returning normalcy to the workplace through a lens that is disenfranchising a lot of great work that has been done so far, and reconciling a lot of gaps that we built bridges for. And so where, I’ll say, like, where the challenge can be is that, you know, I mentioned in the 20-year history of the CEI, it’s grown year over year, you know, by 10 to 15% organically. You know, the summer of 2020, I think our nation had a huge reckoning, especially in corporate America, around how we were showing up for all communities, and how some communities aren’t treated super fair within this country. And so they made a lot of intentional plans to address that, and a lot of those plans were in three and five-year plans. So here we are in 2025 at the end, a lot of those initiatives and companies are looking at whether or not they need to reinvest in that. At the same time that you’re getting these dog whistles from some pretty extreme viewpoints, all the social media and all of that are really kind of kicking up this anti-DEI movement as if it’s a detriment to productivity and success. When we have years of evidence to the opposite. And so, you know, when I see folks with hesitation, thank goodness we’re a benchmarking tool, because I can remind folks of their history. You know, you’ve been doing this for a while now, and you know, and it matters, and we can, you know, we’ll be releasing a report here in the next couple of weeks, Kim, that has a direct correlation around longevity in the CEI and financial returns. And so like, what I can tease here is that companies that have been a part of the CEI for 15 years+ have seen a significant correlation in their revenue, profit margin, and market share because of the practices that they put in place.
Kim
Well, we would love to see that report showing when it’s available and, and get it out to our community. I know we’ve been very focused on the CEI, the Corporate Equality Index, but I know your team creates other sort of educational tools and trainings for employers. What? What are those topics that you’re covering, what’s in high demand right now, and what do you think is driving that interest?
Shawnie
Yeah, you know, there’s a lot of interest now because a lot of executive orders and a lot of media around DEI and companies repositioning or pulling back has created a lot of confusion. So we’ve gotten a lot of requests from workplaces of really just understanding what is the lay of the land, especially from ERG leaders just being unsure, you know, like they had all these policies in place because their employer was a part of the Corporate Equality Index. But then you’re hearing, you know that you know a rhetoric around what you know is anti-DEI, and some of the things that you know are a part of the CEI are swept up in that. And you know, so. We’ve done a lot of level setting and reeducating people around what the tool actually is and that it is not, you know, a tool that puts, you know, the queer community above anyone else in the workplace. It’s truly a tool about fairness and parity. It really just looks at all the policies and practices that are already there and just making sure that everyone has access to them, and then giving a blueprint on what access looks like. And so we do that through the CEI itself. We create a lot of resources around those pillars and guides around those pillars. You know, some of our most recent reports kind of going back to your previous question around like, you know, when people are hesitant, how do you guide a leader about the importance of, you know, creating safe and affirming workplaces? Well, there’s a lot of data out there, and I think one of the big things about the data that’s important is the emerging workforce. The emerging workforce. I’m an elder millennial, but that’s Gen Z, right, and Gen Alpha, but Gen Z and Millennial folks are the two biggest cohorts in the global workforce in the history of generational cohorts. Gen Z, specifically, will be a third of the global workforce by 2030, and millennials are already a third of the workforce, so it’s two-thirds of the workforce, right? That are millennials and Gen Z, and these two cohorts are more out and allied than any other previous cohort. So they’re going into the world expecting acceptance and inclusion, whether it’s for them personally, or for their neighbor, or for their colleague. And so the future of your business is making sure that you create safe and affirming spaces for this emerging workforce who is not going to go back into, you know, the 40s and 50s and workplaces where, you know, men were the only ones in positions of power, and women were only secretaries, and everyone wore a suit and part of their hair on the left, right. So like, these are things that you know, um, tropes that we’re hearing are about what you know, American standards and American values are about. But I say like our American values are about our individuality here, and about celebrating that and celebrating success through that.
Kim
I like how you break it down that way, by generation and the future of the, of the workforce. And we really have to be leaning in and listening to what these future generations want and are about and what they prioritize. And it is a different framing, um you know, then, then, sort of older, older generations. I think it’s, I think it’s great to kind of frame it that way. We’re getting close to the end of our conversation. Shawnie, I could talk for like, three more hours about these topics, and I know they are of great interest to our our employers and our community as a whole. But let me ask you this: What’s one thing you wish more employers understood about building workplaces where LGBTQ+ employees can really thrive?
Shawnie
Yeah, I think the one thing I really wish employers would understand is that you don’t need to be an expert on the LGBTQ+ community. We’re not asking for that. What we’re… and you don’t need to learn a new set of being or a new set of rules. We’re just asking you to, like, lean in on your unconscious bias a little bit and create a space where we remove assumptions for everyone. And when you do that, then everyone really does feel included and really feels safe when we’re assuming that a certain group or demographic may not be interested or may not have a need, is where you get into those Well, if I do this for this group, I’m not doing that for this group. Well, I, I argue or challenge, not even argue, when you think of all of your employee resource groups or your different demographic representations, where does the LGBTQ community not exist? Because we are veterans, we are women, we are people of color, we are fill in the blank. It is a group of individuals that intersects with every other identity that shows up within the workplace. So when you think about that, just really understanding that when you show up for the most marginalized, you are really showing up for all.
Kim
Yeah, I think that’s a great way of framing it, because I do think sometimes maybe people are nervous about saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing, or approaching it in the wrong way. And I think you’re helping to sort of remove those fears and really lay out a path that creates a, you know, a starting point for folks who are new, you know, new in the space, or want to sort of ramp up or amplify their commitment to diverse communities, you know, within the workplace. Um, Shawnie, can you remind our listeners today about how they can learn more about the index and what you’re assessing, how they could engage with you, if they want to take this on, and give us some calls to action here, where folks can really engage and participate.
Shawnie
Yeah, you know, one thing I want to say, you know, I mentioned the eligibility for the Corporate Equality Index, you don’t have to be eligible and be listed in the report to be able to use the benefits of the report to affect changew here you are. You know every place, well, just about every place is a workplace. So whether you’re working at a small bookstore, local coffee shop, the core pillars of creating a safe and affirming environment really translates to any sort of workplace environment. So I, you know, I really want folks to know that. HRC.org is our website, and that’s where you can find a lot about the Human Rights Campaign. If you specifically look up the Corporate Equality Index, you can see our most latest report that was released in January this year to really get you know, wrap your arms around exactly what we do with that body of work. And if you’ve got questions, reach out to us directly. You know, we are a small but mighty team, but we answer all calls that come through around workplace inclusion, and you can reach us at workplace@hrc.org, or specific questions about the CEI, we have an inbox for that cei@hrc.org as well
Kim
Wow. Terrific. Shawnie and I am, we can certainly send out a link to the last report to our, to our community, so they can get a sense of what is being assessed and what their report looks like, and then when you have that new report in a couple of weeks, we’d love to get that out to our community as well. And I imagine you’re going to get some calls after we after this podcast and after this discussion today, because I think we’re sparking a lot of interest here. I just, I really want to thank you, Shawnie for joining us today and congratulate you guys on the great work that you’re doing. We’re so excited to share with our audience about the work that you’re doing at HRC, and I know that our listeners, our audience, will find your insights to be incredibly invaluable. So thank you for joining today, this has been NEBGH Voices. Thanks, everyone, for listening. And as always, I wish you wellness, and I am one of the voices.
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