Kim
Hello. This is Kim Thiboldeaux, host of NEBGH voices. As we prepare to share this first episode with you, I wanted to provide some background on why we selected these first guests. Our core commitment is to ensure that all voices in the healthcare and benefits space are welcome on this podcast. This first episode reflects that promise. We have an HR leader from a global financial services firm, an Executive Director and CEO of a major union benefit and pension fund, and a clinical psychologist transforming the way mental health services are provided. This is quite the combination, to say the least. Our hope is that you learn how healthcare trends affect their work differently, and where there are common challenges and opportunities. You will also hear a bit about our guests lives outside of the workplace, and discover that you may have something in common with them, another example of what makes our show different. So thank you for giving your time to this episode. As always, I ask you to subscribe and share this with your friends and coworkers. Now let’s start the first episode of NEBGH Voices.
Kim
Let’s begin by welcoming Sandi Stein.
Sandi Stein is the managing director of human resources and Global Head of total rewards at Brown Brothers Harriman. She’s also the Chair of the Board of Directors of the Northeast Business Group on Health. Welcome to the show, Sandi.
Sandi Stein
Thank you, Kim, thanks for having me.
Kim
So let’s jump in, Sandi, take us inside your employer world at BBH. Describe a day in the life of Sandi Stein.
Sandi Stein
I think I would start by saying no two days are alike. I could bounce from trying to resolve an employee claim issue, I could focus on vendor management, where I’ve got 50 global vendors – benefit vendors around the world that require a tremendous amount of oversight, from a risk perspective or a data breach perspective, there are other things that have come up of late, which no surprise to any GLP-1s, okay, people are having issues. Employees and their families are having issues with the supply chain, and they somehow magically think I might be able to solve the supply chain issue. But they bring those they bring those questions.
Kim
For our listeners. GLP, ones are the new, fairly new medications for diabetes, for obesity that we see all the ads on TV. Yeah?
Sandi Stein
I’m always flattered to think that they think Sandi Stein can actually solve for that supply chain issue and the shortage of those meds.
Kim
Sandi, I know the employer benefit space is incredibly complex, maybe more complex than ever, and certainly also ever changing. So what are the more challenging aspects of your work?
Sandi Stein
We don’t have national health insurance, and the majority of Americans rely on their employer for health care coverage, and it’s a very expensive undertaking for any employer in this country. Health Care has always been, in my opinion, a very emotive topic. And what I mean by emotive, what seems small like getting a new ID card from a new insurance company is overwhelming. So what employers do when they go out to bid and they check the market to see, do they have the most effective insurer with a broad provider network, there’s this concept of disruption, right? So if you’re currently a client of Cigna, and you go out to the market and you think that United Healthcare is your solution, what’s going to happen is there will most definitely be fallout in terms of the provider. So let’s say, you know, you do this kind of match, and 80% of the providers are in network with United, which means 20% are not, and now you’re asking employees to make a very difficult decision. So if you’re if your plan design is such that you have in network and out of network benefits, all of a sudden the employee has to make the decision along with their families, which is, these are personal, emotive decisions. These are based on long term relationships that you’ve had with your provider. That is one area of super challenge that I see. Another one is there’s another role that I play at BBH, and it is, I am a global co-chair of our LGBTQ+ network. These networks come knocking at my door very often and say, “Hey, how come we don’t cover that?” Or, “Hey, can we look at this?” You know, and it’s a very it’s a tough balancing act when you think about what to include in your plan?
Kim
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, you mentioned cost, Sandi, I want to stick with that topic for a minute. It’s certainly no secret that healthcare costs continue to be on the rise in the US. I read recently that the total healthcare spend in the US has tripled since 2000 and that we now spend 4.5 trillion with a “T” trillion dollars on health care. So how do you as an employer manage the rising cost of health care while continuing to provide best in class benefits to your employees and not shifting that cost to your employees, right? You talk about the struggles that they’re already facing.
Sandi Stein
This is a tough one, and I don’t want to disappoint, but I don’t have the answer. And the way we think about healthcare is really through the lens of sustainability, okay? And kind of my vision is we want employees to have a vested interest in their health and their healthcare decisions. So in 2014 we moved away from the concept of co-payments, not a lot of transparency and CO payments. We moved away from that model to a co-insurance model where all of a sudden folks were going to receive an explanation of benefits, the negotiated rate with a network provider, which would tell them not to, you know, they’re not responsible for anything above that negotiated rate. We don’t pass costs on to our employees. Every single year, we benchmark against three different indicators to see where we are with respect to premiums, payroll contributions, as well as co-insurance or out of pocket maximums or deductible amounts. And we look at this every single year, and that’s how we think about it. We look at what’s going on across the firm in a lot of you know, through a bunch of different lenses, but now those changes that we recommended two years ago, those are going into effect, so it’s impossible for us to continue to absorb those, those rising healthcare costs. So I don’t have a wand, I don’t have magic fairy dust. There’s not an easy solution. We incrementally do move the needle. We do.
Kim
You talked a little bit earlier, Sandi about sort of the human, inhuman resources, right? The emotion and the humanity that’s involved in in your work. And it does take a special person, I think, to do the work that you do without maybe naming names. Is there a success story you can share? An example of how something that you did or that you implemented touched somebody’s life in a positive way?
Sandi Stein
It took me 10 years across two employers to get approval to introduce gender affirmation care.
Kim
You want to explain what that is, Sandi?
Sandi Stein
Yeah, so that is basically supporting someone who is considering changing their gender. Doesn’t mean it’s the whole shebang. It is a lifelong journey, and it is something different for every individual. I mentioned earlier that we look at benchmark data. We look at, you know, prevalence, best practice, etc. And I had all that information again across two employers. And I think that there’s, you know, concern around cost, but 10 years, two employers, we got it in, and I and, you know, you know, I love the question, because I have a very particular story. I mentioned earlier that I am in this, this LGBTQ+ ERG community, and there’s a there’s a Human Rights Campaign, and there’s a survey each year. It’s a Corporate Equality Index that employers get, you know, it’s a survey, and we see where we rank, and all that good stuff. But the year that we got gender affirmation care into approved and into our benefits, we actually scored 100, even now telling you, you know that experience is emotional and thrills me and makes me happy, but it wasn’t a particular person, but it was a really big milestone in in terms of how we deliver absolutely.
Kim
A big shift, a game changer. Really, really. Sandi, I want to shift gears for a minute. You are the chair of the board of the Northeast Business Group on Health. Thank you for serving in that role. If we were sitting at lunch with a perspective member, we’re trying to recruit them to join NEBGH, what would you say to convince them to join us.
Sandi Stein
I think of the business group as a network of networks. It is a network of networks. The Business Group enables me, you know, deep benefits, subject matter expert, it provides me an opportunity to see the next best thing that’s coming around the corner. You guys are sussing out so much for your members that you know, you are looking at the universe, you know, kicking the tires, working with the board, understanding what to bring, what is relevant. You guys are bringing the best and the brightest to your membership, and I know that people are leaving with ideas that they did not have when they walked in a room or they got onto that webinar. This is really important, and the business group is a place of ideas that often we rely on external consultants for that kind of input, or that kind of knowledge, or that kind of heads up that sometimes we don’t get, or the price tag for that is really, really high as compared to membership in the business group. Their night and day, but the value is the same in some in some respects, sometimes even better or higher.
Kim
Music to my ears, Sandi, let’s talk a little bit more at any about NEBGH, you know, we have a very diverse membership. We’ve got a lot of different players in the healthcare ecosystem. We’ve got employers, health plans, hospitals, unions. Sometimes those are competing voices within the healthcare conversation. And there are some business groups that are employer only. Why do you think it’s important for us to bring all of these diverse voices to the table?
Sandi Stein
Diversity of thought is key and critical. I think we all know that we get to be innovative. You know, all that good stuff. When I talk about benchmarking, whether it’s plan, design, whether it’s cost, we are a bank, so we do look across financial services, but I think it’s really important to look to see how other industries have been successful in some of their efforts or some of their initiatives that maybe we wouldn’t have considered.
Kim
And part of it sounds like you’re also saying it’s also sort of benchmarking beyond banking, right? So maybe,
Sandi Stein
Oh, absolutely, it is. You know, when I think about plan design at a different perspective, if someone’s running a program, or somebody’s looking at a point solution that they’ve been successful with, that’s something that I would be able to bring into the conversation, even if it’s outside of financial services.
Kim
Interesting. Sandi, we’re coming to the end of our time, but I just want to ask you, in closing, tell us one thing we should know, and maybe we don’t know about benefits in HR professionals.
Sandi Stein
You know, there’s not a one size fits all. Okay? I think a lot of it has to do with culture. I think a lot of it has to do with financial health and tolerance. You know, I’ve seen employers do things that might feel like a stick. Others think about it in terms of a carrot. Other employers do a combination of a stick and carrot – market prevalence always plays into these you know, where do you where do you want to you know, do you want to be in some 75th percentile, leading in benefits? Are you okay being middle of the pack at 50th percentile?
Kim
Great, Sandi. Thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your perspective. Now I’d like to welcome to the podcast, Donna Rey. Donna Rey is the Executive Director and CEO of 1199 SEIU benefits and pension funds. She’s also a member of the Board of Directors of the Northeast Business Group on Health. Donna, welcome to the podcast.
Donna Rey
Thank you, Kim.
Kim
Donna, or should I say, Dr Rey, please tell us a little bit about your career journey and what brought you to 1199.
Donna Rey
So Kim, thank you again. And let me start by saying congratulations to you on your appointment to lead NEBGH, you have hit the ground running. You’ve been forward thinking in your approach and thinking about how to broaden the reach and impact that the organization has in the health space. So welcome.
Kim
Thank you.
Donna Rey
Thank you for asking me to share my story as part of member voices. Kim, I’ve always worked in positions charged with leading major organizational change in large organizations and bringing efficiencies and sound practices into organizations. And I attribute my success in this area to be a result of my focus on and passion for the success of individuals impacted by changes implemented.
Kim
So tell our listeners more about 1199 who are its members? How many members are we talking about? What’s your annual health care spend? I love you to just to share some statistics and shed a little light on the group.
Donna Rey
Sure we provide health and pension benefits for close to 450,000 active healthcare workers and their families and pension benefits to those who retired. 1199 members are hospital workers, nursing home workers and home care workers. So some titles are nurses and nurses’ aides, lab technicians, housekeepers, transporters, pharmacists, social workers, those are examples of types of medical professions who are 1199 members, and at 1199 family of funds, we know that we care for those who care for others. That is our mission, to support our members so that you can support others as they do each day.
Kim
Amazing. That’s a great, great story, Donna, I appreciate you sharing that very much. It really does bring some light to who those members are. But what are some of the other challenges that your members face? Let’s say today and going into the future, and how are you supporting them?
Donna Rey
We launched a healthy living initiative to support our members on their health journey. We started with a primary care for all campaign encouraging members to identify and see their physician. We broadened access to programs like Weight Watchers and other programs that support our members in controlling, preventing and eliminating chronic disease. We created a healthy living Resource Center on our website, which provides resources on the five pillars of wellness: healthy eating, healthy body, healthy Minds, healthy Hearts, healthy relationships, we launched members voices similar to what you were thinking of for NEBGH, where our members share their health journey experience, encouraging and inspiring one another. And lastly, we launched also a podcast called Health is the key.
Kim
Terrific. Donna, lucky us, you’re on the board of the Northeast Business Group on Health. You’re an active member. Tell me a little bit about what you see as the value of belonging to NEBGH, and I guess, particularly from a union perspective.
Donna Rey
It’s a place for myself and the leadership team to learn new approaches and how care can be delivered in ways that can empower our members in making informed decisions and choices. Kim in particular, the roundtable discussions and webinars, all of which allows us to provide and think about how to provide the best care at the best value for our members?
Kim
Well, that’s a great overview. So if you and I were sitting at lunch, Donna, with a prospective new member, what would you say to them to convince them to join? How would you describe your own experience with NEBGH, my sense is you’re a very persuasive person. So what would you what would you do to support me in recruiting new members in.
Donna Rey
The Northeast Business Group on Health is a unique and particularly safe space for sharing issues and concerns. You know, when I think about being in a safe space, the members of NEBGH are not competing with each other, so we really have the space to share those common opportunities to the work that we do, and really grapple together and identify real solutions to those issues, to come together to learn, to share best practices and explore resources and opportunities with colleagues who do this work.
Kim
That’s great. Um, you touched a little earlier on some of the member stories, right? And we’re all looking to elevate those voices in the healthcare conversation. You know, perhaps without naming names, is there a member story you could share with us today? Maybe a story about how a benefit or service you put in place help someone in a meaningful way.
Donna Rey
You know who comes to mind, and I think they wouldn’t mind if I shared their name. Sal and Joanne are two members who shared their health journey with our trustees. At our annual trustee meeting last June, they partnered together and joined weight watches and encouraged others to do so, and lost about 80 pounds in less than a year together. They encourage their colleagues, they do walks at lunch time, and they participate in our Weight Watchers group, and we’re actually calling them our ambassadors, and they’ve agreed to work with us to develop an ambassador program across work sites. One other person comes to mind is Dave. He participated in the primary care for all drive that we did, and when he visited his doctor, he was surprised to learn that he was pre-diabetic, and decided that wasn’t the road he wanted to go down. Long story short, change his diet, changed his exercise, and when he went back to the doctor, realized he was pre-diabetic.
Kim
Good for them. Good for all of them. And it’s wonderful that they’re willing to share, because I think that sharing does inspire others, for sure. So in closing, Donna I know you know we’re in the fall right, head down. Planning for 2025 all of our members, what are some of the key issues for you that are on the table? How are you planning for the year ahead?
Donna Rey
Yeah, we take our lead from our members, and so in 25 we’re focusing more on hypertension, on stress and on lifestyle medicine, which is a way of saying encouraging members to seek support beyond a doctor who may be focusing on treating disease and more a holistic approach. Kim, we have a new partnership with the Academy of lifestyle medicine. So we’re excited about this work and continuing to expand what we do to support the help of our members.
Kim
That’s wonderful, wonderful to hear. Donna, I want to thank you so much for joining us and sharing your perspective. Now I’d like to bring in Joe Grasso. Joe Grasso is the vice president of workforce transformation and customer marketing at Lyra health. Dr. Joe Grasso, welcome to the podcast.
Joe Grasso
Thank you so glad to be here.
Kim
So Dr Grasso, please tell us a little bit about you and your professional journey.
Joe Grasso
So I am a doctor because I’m a clinical psychologist by training, and my role early on with Lyra was to make sure that our providers were practicing evidence based treatments, that they were measuring the outcomes of their clinical care, and that we were bringing in providers into the network who hit our quality bar. And through that work, I really became interested in how we were improving access to care through the employer space, but also how we were working with employers to change hearts and minds about mental health. And fast forward, four years later, the team that I lead is focused on partnering with employers around learning and development programs, their management practices, their company policies, basically everything within the workplace that we can do to make mental health a priority for employees and ensure that the workplace environment is mitigating the risk of work life itself causing harm to mental health. So we do a lot of consultation, we do a lot of multimodal learning programs. We do a lot of kind of assessment and finding ways to optimize the work experience and make mental health a part of the work culture.
Kim
I love that. Well, Joe, I’m happy to share with our listeners that at NEBGH, we are honoring Lyra at our tribute to leadership in December, we know Lyra well. You started to tell us a little bit about the company, but maybe take us back to the beginning, inception, a little bit about the mission, for folks who are not familiar.
Joe Grasso
Sure. So Lyra was founded by David Ebersman. He is the former CFO at Facebook. Before that, the CFO at Genentech, and the company started from a very deeply impactful personal story of his, he had difficulty finding care for his son. He really came face to face with this kind of societal problem of mental health care being hard to access, and even when you do access it, it’s not great quality. So as a result, he founded Lyra, and our entire mission from the beginning has been to ensure rapid and easy access to life changing mental health care for the full spectrum of mental health need. So our mission is to provide easy access to high quality care along the spectrum.
Kim
Talk to us a little bit more, Joe, about the mental health challenges, you know, in the workplace today, you know, obviously, we’ve, we’ve, we’ve come out of Covid, which kind of revealed a lot of things that already existed but also caused some new things. And so you’re in this every day with employers. What are the challenges? What are the mountains that you’re climbing on this issue?
Joe Grasso
Employers come to us because they recognize mental ill health is this defining problem of our time, and access to high quality care is one of the biggest hurdles to solving it. And there are problems from the human toll and there’s problems from the business toll that this takes. We know one in five adults in the US alone, are likely to face some kind of mental illness in a given year. Accessing care is arduous. It’s frustrating, and so for employers, what this can mean is you have a lot of people not getting treatment for their mental health conditions, and we have a whole host of research to show that that has negative effects on things like productivity, retention, disability leave, more expensive healthcare claims down the line, because mental health is mental illness is often comorbid with severe and chronic physical health conditions, use of emergency services, for the individual, you’re likely to suffer for a longer period of time and have a really frustrating experience trying to get life changing care for the employer, you’re likely to see negative effects in terms of higher health care claims, costs, greater risk to your retention and productivity. And so there’s this other challenge that we’re helping employers with, around overcoming stigma, promoting mental health literacy, making sure that when people have a need, they’re ready and willing to go seek care for it.
Kim
Joe is there a particular without naming names, obviously, but a particular employee story that you can share or feedback about how your model has helped employees in a real way, like bring it home for us.
Joe Grasso
I can share, you know, the story of a manager in the construction industry experienced an anxiety attack, a panic attack, went to the ER was convinced of a heart attack, and was really told you’re experiencing severe anxiety and also depression. And that was a wakeup call that his mental health had been neglected. By using Lyra, he was able to make an appointment with the provider very quickly after that ER visit, and he noted that within a week, he felt better. He felt a sense of hope that this is actually a condition that I don’t have to live with and just manage, but I can actually recover from. And since then, he’s actually experienced clinical improvement and recovery and has been happier and more motivated.
Kim
Wow. Thank you for sharing that, Joe. So this is a big question, short podcast, but I’m going to ask it anyway. Maybe you can shed a little light for us. But we’re certainly Joe, as we all know, living in challenging times. We’ve got the election coming up, we’ve got weather events, we’ve got rising tensions in the Middle East, war in Ukraine, continued economic challenges, I mean so many things that are happening that are just inundating people with these tensions and pressures and divisions. So based on your professional credentials, any thoughts about how we as a society can approach these tensions and these divisions and maybe create a little more calm and peace and unity.
Joe Grasso
You’re right. It’s top of mind for everybody. I have a colleague on my team, Dr. Andrea Holman, and she, she and I agree on a few things. One, you got to acknowledge when things are hard and not judge yourself for having a reaction to it. One of the things that we often work on in therapy is coping with the stressor itself, or whatever is happening to you, but then making sure that you don’t layer on the suffering. By judging yourself for not reacting the way you think that you should give yourself some grace. Tune in, name what you’re feeling, don’t judge yourself for it. And research actually tells us, when you do that, you just give yourself the space to feel your feelings. It allows those feelings to naturally subside more easily, also making sure that you don’t do this alone, reaching out for support. And the last thing I’ll just say is react to what you know, not what you don’t know. And our brain is very good about filling in the blanks of what could happen with worst case scenarios and fear-based thoughts. And there is a lot of wisdom and taking things one step at a time. So rather than focusing on the unknown future, what can you do about what you do know right now, and if you can’t change the situation itself, go back to what you can do to cope effectively.
Kim
Really great advice. Joe. Thank you. Joe – You guys are members of the Northeast Business Group on Health, and we’re so excited that you’re part of our community. Tell me, how do you engage with NEBGH, what do you see as the value of bringing together so many different stakeholders in the employer and healthcare space?
Joe Grasso
That is a commonality that we share. We love that any NEBGH and Lyra were both focused on bringing together employers, benefits leaders from those employers, and kind of getting this collective together to talk about, how do we deal with these big, challenging problems. Engaging with members of NEBGH often looks like promoting best practices around promoting mental health in the workplace, partnering around, how do we improve mental health literacy, reduce stigma? You know, a lot of this also is about us listening and understanding what are the challenges that you and your members are facing that need to inform how we develop our programs and services and stay ahead of these problems.
Kim
Joe, companies like Lyra are really important partners in the employer space. Is there anything else we should know about Lyra health and about companies like yours before we wrap up our conversation today?
Joe Grasso
Easy access to high quality mental health care isn’t just the right thing to do by your people, it’s cost effective for the business. This is one of those rare win-win situations when people have access to care that’s easy to get we know it helps them get measurably better, and we know that that improvement is lasting, because we have the data to show it. That means significantly lower costs for your mental health claims through your health plan. It means a ripple effect on improved productivity, reduced turnover, in addition to just being the right thing to do by your people.
Kim
Do good and do well at the same time, right?
Joe Grasso
That’s my last point, because even beyond access to care, just prioritizing mental health as a company, it is synergistic with better performance. Too often we think good a wellness culture and a performance culture at odds. No, they work together and support one another.
Kim
I think that’s a great point, Joe.
Joe, I want to thank you so much…. for joining us today and sharing your perspective as this first episode comes to a close, I want to recognize our premier sponsors, Pfizer and Sanofi, as well as our presenting sponsors, Grail and Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, these wonderful partners make it possible for us to share this content with you. This is any NEBGH voices. We hope you have learned something new today, and until next time, I wish you wellness.
Kim
And I am one of the voices,
Sandi Stein
and I am one of the voices,
Voice
one of the voices
Kim
of NEBGH
Kim
Want to hear more from our guests? I asked all three to tell us something we don’t know about them, something that might surprise us, here is what they said.
Kim
Sandi, tell us something that we don’t know about you, whether it’s at work or something personal or a hobby. Tell us a little bit more about you.
Sandi Stein
So I think two things I would love to share about me. And most people don’t know the first one. And I, before I joined Brown Brothers actually, at 43, I started to learn to play the piano.
Kim
Fantastic!
Sandi Stein
Yeah. And I, and I will say that there’s not been anything that I’ve experienced in my life that has given me that level of joy. I have actually, people won’t agree with it, but people have often over the years asked me if I played the piano because I actually have pretty large hands. And I guess I got,I got the courage up to try it. And to do something later in life like that is really super cool. I wish I, I wish I was able to keep the commitment. As we all know, you know, the joke about, you know, how do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice, practice, practice. I’ve not had the ability or time to practice, so it’s not something I kept with, but to try something new at 43, super cool. I think a lot of people probably know that I’m running my second, in two years, my second New York City marathon, and that’s five weeks out from now. So again, these little hobbies a little bit later on in life, fun to do.
Kim
Not so little, not so little, good for you, good for you, I love that.
Kim
Now Donna, tell us something that we don’t know about you, something that might surprise us.
Donna Rey
Well, Kim, I think most people probably wouldn’t know that I’m a certified executive coach and focus on working with leaders who are ready to as I say dig deep to find the result to struggle through inner challenges and tap into and release the greatness within them. I work with leaders at all levels, but have a heart for working with women leaders in ministry, giving themselves for spiritual growth and uplifting others. I use coaching as a way of leading my team, but received my formal training from Columbia. The Teachers College at Columbia Business School have a joint coaching certification program, and I am certified as a coach through International Coaching Foundation. I don’t think most people know that.
Kim
That’s fantastic. Well, you know, Donna something I think you and I share in common. I also grew up in a union household. My dad drove a city bus in Philadelphia for 30 years and was a member of the Transport Workers Union. So we’ve had many of those experiences over my childhood and lifetime.
Kim
So Joe, tell us something we don’t know about you, Joe. Maybe something that might surprise us.
Joe Grasso
Oh, interesting. I’m not sure this surprised people, but I really, despite doing all of this work that’s very macro, thinking about how do we get populations better access to care, how do we change hearts and minds around mental health really broadly. I have a side private practice ’cause I really still love doing therapy. So I see a few clients every week and keep my foot fully in that world of doing clinical work because that part still energizes me and there’s probably some part later later later in my career where I would go back to doing that full -time because it’s it’s still a primary love.
Kim
Anything fun you would like to share?
Joe Grasso
I’ll tell you something that would probably really surprise people. I I’ve recently taken up hip hop choreography. I’ve decided I need a hobby that is purely for the fun of it. It’s something that I’m not good at and it’s fine if I’m never really good at it, but it’s just for fun.
So that’s a new fun hobby for me.
Kim
I love that! Well, Joe, I’m happy to share with our listeners that at NEBGH, we are honoring Lyra at our tribute to leadership in December. We might need to see some of those new ones. Just gonna say.
Joe Grasso
You gave me a countdown clock I really need to up my skills.
Kim
Thank you so much for joining us today. This is NEBGH Voices, we hope you’ve learned something new today. Until next time, I wish you wellness.